7/06/2005 03:29:00 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|
We’re going to start today's post off with a fun game called “Who’s Going To Hell.” Besides me I mean. Here are four different people – only one of these people is going to heaven – guess who it is.
As you may have already guessed, the correct answer is #4. #’s 1, 2 & 3 – breakout the sunscreen baby, you know where you’re going. So what does this tell you about heaven? Heaven is for people who follow the rules, everyone else is going to Dante’s. But let’s think about heaven for a second, apart from being a resort for baby-raping murderers what does heaven have to offer. Getting of the illogic of it all, how does an eternity in heaven sound to you? Well the idea of being surrounded by fundamentalist pinheads forever is enough for me, but let’s say it’s whatever you make it – like your own personal heaven. How good could that possibly be? Especially if you have to follow all those rules. You can forget that three-way and disease-free orgy you’ve been fantasizing about. You LUSTful sinner. You can forget about an eternity of drinking beer and playing Xbox – SLOTH! All the pizza and ice cream you can eat is right out – Filthy GLUTTON! So what’s the draw?
- A woman who lives in India, next to Mother Theresa who does exactly the same work and has saved thousands of lives as well as providing comfort for the dying and is widely revered by all. She is also an atheist.
- A man who lives in Scotland and is a devout Wiccan. He is wealthy and gives half of his money to build homes for orphaned children throughout the U.K. and the other half he uses to cure cancer.
- A woman who lives in America who develops a program for living and learning that completely reverses the obesity epidemic and transforms 97% of children into straight A students. She is a new age spiritualist who regularly consults her Tarot Cards and astrological charts for guidance.
- A man who is a Government Official in Africa. He has made millions by rerouting medicine from AIDS organizations to the black market, in turn causing thousands of deaths. He is also a pedophile who has raped 4 children. He gives 10% of his income to the church and attends regularly. He has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal lord and savior and has asked forgiveness for his many sins.
I assume you would still have to go to church every week and listen to some sanctimonious jack-off drone on for a couple hours while you miss the Angels vs. Demons game on ESPN HELL. If you are married, do you have to wait until your spouse dies before you can get any? What if you didn’t like them? Since divorce is not allowed, are you stuck with them forever? If not, how do you get any, since unmarried sex and spanking the monkey are a no-no. I suppose you could cruise over to Muslim heaven and get in on some of those virgins that they get, but then you forgot to kill a few Christians before you kicked off didn’t you? You could go over to the smaller heavens of Elysium, Valhalla, Mt. Olympus or Tir na nOg, but those places are loaded with people who can kick your ass in every log throwing competition they have, plus you’ll get sick of venison and mead after awhile. Actually you won’t be eating that stuff at all, you’ll be eating ambrosia, the food of the Gods. But that stuff sucks too, I had it over my grandmother’s house once. Mini-marshmallows, coconut, mandarin oranges, and sour cream – you’d think a God could come up with something better. So far this isn’t sounding like very much fun. But you DO get to bask in the glow of the almighty, and that’s good enough for all eternity isn’t it? Isn't it?
You’re the one that fell for that free trip to Cozumel to look at the time share aren’t you? Well this all sounds very depressing, of course there’s also the alternative. The Truth – heaven is just another made up place to make you feel better about dying. So why don’t you buck the trend and start living instead of worrying about dying – who knows how long you have left, and if this is your only shot at it, you’re going to feel pretty stupid if you waste it.|W|P|112068202753685125|W|P|When Heaven is Hell.|W|P|7/06/2005 4:04 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|remember that book: who's who in hell?
Why go to heaven when hell has all the interesting folks?
Seriously though. There is something to be said about living in the now and doing good. And trying to make things happen for yourself instead of praying to some invisible person to make it happen for you.7/06/2005 5:01 PM|W|P|Glod|W|P|I just try to avoid being an un-nice person, and if there is an after life I may qualify. Though there is a rather lot of commen sense to suggest all I'll do is make the world a slightly nicer place.7/06/2005 6:08 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I didn't see anyone on that list that will be going to heaven. :-)
Seriously, though, I don't understand how anyone feels justified in judging who will go to heaven and who will not. (And I recognize the purpose of this "game" was not for YOU to judge - simply to make a point. I'm speaking more to people who stand up with their religious label fastened securely across their forehead, and then condemn and judge others.) And besides, I feel like I need to be much more concerned with how I treat others and my personal example of these beliefs I hold - I don't have the time or energy or level of authority to determine who will and who won't be going to heaven.
That's between you and God and God and you. Not me.7/06/2005 6:19 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|See, now we can agree on that.
I'm glad you saw the point. Most of my challenges are with certain organized relgions and the hypocrisy they espouse.
Having some sort of ecclesiatical get into heaven free card is really no different than the Muslim idea that blowing up people is a free ride to the promised land no matter what. I wouldn't want to be in heaven with a group of bomb crazed lunatics either.
I'm glad you are participating, I'm sure you'll bring a fresh perspective to our discussions.7/06/2005 7:54 PM|W|P|John the Atheist|W|P|Everyone's going to hell. The Christians will go to Muslim hell, the Muslims will go to Buddhist hell, the Jews will go to Christian hell and so on. I think it's only the non-believers who's going to enjoy heaven (hahaha!)7/07/2005 5:43 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|That's why I always say I'm waiting for The Rapture to take all the religious people away so I can get some peace and quiet.7/07/2005 7:45 AM|W|P|jayne|W|P|"Let us weigh the gain and the loss in wagering that God is. Let us estimate these two chances. If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager then without hesitation that He is."
--Blaise Pascal, Thoughts: Of the Necessity of the Wager
***I won't embroil myself in a battle of ideologies with you. But, as a Christian (a liberal one at that), let me ask this...if I believe and can gain all or lose nothing, what is to be gained by not believing?7/07/2005 8:14 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Well, I would say that depends on what comes along with that belief. Pascal's gamble is really set in a vacuum without considering all of the variables, it also presupposes a benevolent deity, which given tsunami's and terrorists and such seems incongruent.
But be that as it may, I don't think the choice not to believe leaves very much flexibility. Given the number of believers vs. non believers, it would appear that belief was the default position. As such those who continue to disbelieve face growing pressure and not much happiness as a result - being devoid of all the trappings of faith etc.
The challenge is that once you cross that line into disbelief, you can't really go back. For me it came after many years of exhaustive research and experience, so to go back would be fundementally impossible unless all of the myriad of questions that I asked that went unanswred were somehow explained to my satisfaction.
Just like anything else, once you learn how the magic trick is done, it's not really any fun anymore.
The only real benefit is in knowing that al my life decisions are made by me and that I am in complete control of my life and destiny as much as that is possible, but it also means that I have to take full responsibility for it and can't blame god, fate or satan for anything.
All told, I think faith is probably a preffered state of being since I sense that more people are happier in that state. I just can't go there because I can't stop asking questions. So I would say not much is to be gained by non-belief, but for the perpetually inquisitive, that's where you end up.
If you don't want to end up there. Just don't ask the questions or you'll spoil the magic trick.7/07/2005 11:20 AM|W|P|thordora|W|P|I've always agreed with the perspective in Good Omens. Heaven would be boring, and full of a bunch of people you won't want to talk to anyway.
Screw heaven.7/07/2005 11:27 AM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|love that book.7/07/2005 12:38 PM|W|P|AVA|W|P|I so agree with you on this one. Heaven and hell are just a bunch of nonsense.
This is a wonderful post Rudicus.7/07/2005 1:00 PM|W|P|boneSmith|W|P|Wonderfully incredible post... Thanks!
http://bonesmith.blogspot.com/10/08/2005 8:32 AM|W|P|Josh|W|P|Your blog is great! It's hard to find blogs with good content and people talking about tarot cards these days! I have a secret tarot cards exposed if you want to come check it out7/05/2005 02:24:00 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Adversarial dogmas need two things to succeed: followers and an adversary.
But what happens when you win? What do you do when you have defeated your adversary and the field is yours? The Theocons are facing this very dilemma.
As I read through the myriad of conservative blogs which we all know are little more than propaganda tools churned out by robots for the empire, one of the many things that struck me was the overwhelming sense of oppression. Initially I blew it off as more rhetoric, but then I started thinking, who exactly is oppressing them?
To listen to them, they are under the heel of liberals wherever they may turn. But exactly how is that possible? The Conservatives control all three branches of government, the supreme court, most major corporations, the church, the military and the hearts and minds of the majority of the population. So how they hell could anyone be preventing them from doing anything? Who has more power than they do?
Is it the activist judges? Can't be, first of all most of them are on their own team. The majority of those appeals courts and "activist" judges are actually card carrying conservatives and Christians to boot! Secondly if the decisions were being made by rogue judges, wouldn't there be an ethics challenge that could be made or at the very least another court would overturn it?
It must be the ACLU then. I agree that the ACLU is a thorn in the side of CC's everywhere, but are you CC's now willing to admit that a bunch of lawyers are more powerful than the whole of the U.S. Government? Also shouldn't the conservative judges be denying the ACLU their rights? Unless they are ALL activist judges, I would think so.
Well then it has to be the Liberal Controlled Media. Exactly which aspect of the media do the liberals control? Not most of the newspapers, certainly not Fox or the network that lost Dan Rather. Even Public Broadcasting the so-called liberal haven, has now been taken over by Conservatives. And let's look a little closer. Remember Bill Clinton? This guy put his cigar in his girlfriend's "cigar box" and then said he didn't and the media went crazy - it was all over the "liberal" controlled media for months, and then the impeachment took everything in a whole other direction. Conversely, When Bush lied about WMD's and took us to war, and then when the downing street memo came out and now the Time magazine notes naming Karl Rove as the traitor who "outed" one of our intelligence agents in the field out of political revenge - you would think the Liberal Controlled Media would be having a field day, but instead...[cue crickets]
So who is it exactly that is oppressing the Conservatives and Christians? Who is stopping them? Who is behind this grand conspiracy? They are.
That's right it's just one more fabrication to churn up their base and get more of their agenda pushed through while retaining the appearance of fighting the good fight and keeping the sheep afraid of the wolves and under their control. Sheep who aren't scared don't do what they are told.
The only thing keeping these guys from world domination are some pesky gnats like ethics, law, freedom, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
So the next time you hear about how the poor CC's are being oppressed by the jackbooted liberals who somehow control everything, don't forget to call bullshit. The only real freedom fighters and underdogs are those fragile blogger voices who are fighting for truth, justice and the American way.|W|P|112059133285003868|W|P|Where's Satan When You Need Him?|W|P|7/05/2005 2:56 PM|W|P|Glod|W|P|I think you need to use more explosives and banners to get your point across.7/05/2005 3:14 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|it sucks when you are your own enemy7/05/2005 5:29 PM|W|P|AVA|W|P|Or you could start selling T-shirts.7/05/2005 6:15 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Kind of like that "I'm The NRA" campaign a few years back.
It would be great to have an "I Am Satan" t-shirt, but here inthe bible belt I don' think anyone would get it.
I was thinking about doing some Rudicus Report T-shirts, I just don't want to do white ones so i'm looking for a supplier like Cafe Press that will do other colors.7/05/2005 6:20 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|cafepress has some colors, just not red or black.
I think I've seen gray, yellow, and neon green7/05/2005 6:22 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|In other words nothing good - lol
I'd really only want to do darker colors like green, blue or black - but they're more expensive.
I'll do bumper stickers to so you can put one on random SUV's7/06/2005 11:34 AM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|lol7/06/2005 11:53 AM|W|P|Nathan|W|P|http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=649961&lastnode_id=1247/06/2005 12:16 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Nathan,
That's hilarious - I'll give you credit, you got me - I got to #7 or #8 before I got it.
Thanks!!7/06/2005 12:48 PM|W|P|greeneyed_lady|W|P|I don't see anyone oppressed or depressed at all. I see both neocons and liberals alike being propaganda tools for their particular god of either Democrat or Republican. I think both extreems "think" they are winning. I think its the people who aren't playing this stupid game who are depressed.7/06/2005 12:51 PM|W|P|Sassy|W|P|Well this facination with Clinton and the cigar also helps to explain the media coverage when Americans purchase more Enquire scandle sheets then the New York Times and Wallstreet Journal combined. American people love entertainment, we don't care so much about the issues. That helps to explain why cigars get far more coverage then WMD - they aren't very entertaining.7/06/2005 12:54 PM|W|P|Molly|W|P|First off, I'm with you 100%. Second, one of the descriptions on your banners has a typo in it. I got distracted and now I can't remember which one, but I think it was a repeated letter or something. Maybe you don't care, but I'm obsessive about that sort of thing.7/06/2005 12:56 PM|W|P|PATCAM2005|W|P|you had my attention at: "propaganda tools churned out by robots for the empire".
Excellent post, I'll have to come back and check this blog out again.7/06/2005 1:00 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|Molly thanks for the tip, I couldn't see the typo, but that banner will be gone in a day or two and i'll have a new one up, but thanks.
Patcam, thanks for visiting, please come back, there is always something going on here.7/06/2005 3:17 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|I'm a conservative Christian. And I'm free-thinking. Do YOU believe that's possible?
I appreciate this post even though, at times, it was difficult to read. I realized, towards the end, that you equate cc's with republicans and a political agenda. Once I caught on, it was an easier post to comprehend and follow.
I find it a sad fact that your equation is the majority of non-Christians. I would challenge anyone who considers themselves a Christian and yet is not in daily relationship with God, or on a daily pursuit of wisdom regarding Christ's teachings. And I'd ask you to do the same. I hate being lumped into the same category as others who simply use the label "Christian" but don't really stand for anything truly "Christian". It really is more than just a label. And to me, it's equivalent with those pesky gnats.7/06/2005 3:28 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I appreciate your comment. I understand and agree that there are numerous Christians who are good people who do not subscribe to the Christian Conservative/Republican dogma. There are plenty of Christian liberals and moderates as well.
I do not beleive that a person can be a Christian and a Free-Thinker - to me the two are mutually exclusive(we can discuss that in further detail if you feel like it). However I do not hold anything against Christians as long as they don't think that they are always right and that everyone else is wrong.
If you are that Christian, then I'm pleased to meet you, we've been looking for you for a long time, Neo. If you do not share the agenda or the tactics of the people I'm calling the CC's please say something about it - to them! They believe that they are always right and everyone else is wrong.
I'm glad you visted and appreciate your thoughtful comments. Feel free to come back and comment, although I can't imagine you will like much that you read over here.7/06/2005 5:56 PM|W|P|QOB|W|P|Who am I to have to like everything I read? I believe it may prove interesting. And I vow to remain open-minded and simply offer an alternate - but respectful - opinion, when I feel so inclined. Thanks for the welcome.7/05/2005 10:10:00 AM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|I love Philosophy, but I wonder if it is still a viable field of endeavor anymore. Just like Alchemy, it may have served it's purpose.
I used to participate in the Philosophy Forums and had a great time for a few months - then the questions started to repeat themselves. I then ventured over to EPhilosopher and they had the very same questions and very same answers over there.
Then I started to see patterns. The believers could never be convinced to abandon their beliefs no matter how much evidence was stacked up in front of them and non-believers likewise wouldn't abandon their position without some evidence to the contrary, which of course there is none. But this phenomenon didn't change between liberals and conservatives or any other group on any other level. So the conclusion I drew was that you cannot change someone else's beliefs about anything if they already believe in it, no matter what you say, show them or persuade them to think differently.
The other thing I've noticed is that there is nothing new. The same thoughts and ideas that were milling around ancient Greece are the same ones we talk about today, just with different packaging. I also noticed that the vast majority of discussion was less like an actual debate and more like a presidential debate where each side simply waited for their turn and spewed out their agenda of belief.
So, what is the point of philosophy?
What are we hoping to accomplish? How does it better anyone's life or the world? Has society progressed to the point where everything is so dogmatically polarized that the questions of philosophy no longer have relevance?
If there is nothing new under the sun and minds cannot really be changed in any real capacity, has philosophy simply become an intellectual circle jerk? It seems to me that philosophers are little more than lawyers who are arguing a case that can't be won.
Years ago before we had any form of mass communication, it was possible for people not to have thought about things philosophically. There was still much that we didn't know about the world, ourselves and each other. Time, technology and philosophy changed all that. These days - all of the great philosophical questions have been asked and answered. Since we can't know the answers with any certainty, there really isn't anything further left to do.
Right now, the only people thinking about these things is students - people who are newly asking these questions. Everyone else has either decided not to ask them or has already asked them and developed their opinions. Even today, most discussions of philosophy involve people "debating" a topic by quoting other philosophers. No understanding is gained, it is simply a soapbox for competing dogmas to battle - and the only real victor is in which philosopher made a better argument (just like in court where the case is not decided based on right and wrong or justice, it all rules and who makes a better argument and/or exploits the rules to their advantage).
So where does that leave us? Is philosophy dead? I think it may be. What was originally a very broad field, has now been factionlized and specialized to the point where the great thinkers are no longer asking new questions.
So what do we do? If you have a limited number of questions and a library full of answers to those same questions already in existence, where do you go for there. If you can't change what people think, then the only way you can progress is in changing how they think. You can only move forward by getting people outside of their dogmatic camps and thinking differently.
We have to change the way we think about life and the world. We have to re-examine our processes and make decisions for ourselves and not falling into the trap of having others make our decisions for us.
Let's all start today. Declare independence for yourself and your thoughts.
What do YOU think?
|W|P|112057756509649666|W|P|The End of Philosophy?|W|P|7/05/2005 12:51 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|The problem isn't the questions. The problem is the answers.
Moreso, the problem is the people. That closed mindedness.
Why ask the questions if nobody is willing to actually discuss and consider the answers?
I do see some use for philosophy, however. When you apply it to ethics you reach into a whole new realm of philosophy.
It may only be a direction in which only a few will roam, but you can use the questions of old to help solve a problem of now.
As to my beliefs. I think that we haven't found everything yet. Having that knowledge makes it easier to be able to actually consider the views of others. But don't shove your beliefs down my throat.
:-)7/05/2005 6:04 PM|W|P|AVA|W|P|Definitely, these days there is probably nothing we haven't asked ourselves already and that we haven't already answered. As you said, by now, people that care the slightest bit about Philosophy have already developed their own point of view on mostly every issue, and there is no changing it.
I'm sure you wouldn't change yours, and I wouldn't change mine based only on arguments.
Yes, Philosophy is dead as we know it. But as long as we still think for ourselves, question our own's or other people's beliefs and keep forming our own opinions based on what we think are reliable facts, Philosophy will always exist.
The problem is that every day there are less and less people who are capable of doing just that, and there are more things that distract us from the questions that really matter.7/06/2005 11:56 AM|W|P|Nathan|W|P|I have yet to see a good, original question concerning metaphysics on the philosophy forums. What I see is a bunch of hoo hah people quoting other people. The couple people I have seen that said "I think" or "I believe" are shot down.
But the people that say "I think" are out there. Philosophy will never die.7/06/2005 12:21 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|That's the problem right there - there is this belief (especially in academia) that anything YOU think can't possibly be as good as what Descartes or Hume or Russell or Plato thought and whenever you bring your own thoughts into is, it's all about proof.
That's the whole point of philosophy is is to think for yourself - and if you have others thinking for themsleves - you might actually get somewhere.
That's what we need a thinking for yourself forum, where only your opinion counts.
Thanks for the comment.7/08/2005 11:18 PM|W|P|Nathan|W|P|That's quite the original idea!
You know, it has merit. I do have a web domain I could set up the forums at. Would you like to try it? I wouldn't be very good at advertising it, though. I suppose the blogging community might be a good way to initially spread it.7/01/2005 01:24:00 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|If you preach intolerance and hate, how long do you think it will be before people start acting on it?
For sometime now, since the Theocons became emboldened because people didn't have the good sense to say anything or stand up to them when it was happening, gays have been their target. There has been an ongoing campaign to marginalize, demonize and brutalize anyone or anything that even has the connotation of being gay. They've gotten their entire base of robots all up in arms about and have even gotten Pope Nazi all frothed up about it and now that kind of crap is spreading.
The more you put a religious or ideological wall in between people, the more violence, intolerance and hatred will result.
So yesterday at what should have been a cause for celebration at the Gay Pride Parade in Jerusalem, another positive event was mired by religious fanaticism. Not the usual "God Hates Fags" or "Homos Burn in Hell" crap that you see over here. No, this time a fundamentalist ran into the crowd in the middle of the parade and stabbed three people. NICE!
This is exactly why hate-speech and rhetoric are so dangerous. This is why people get arrested for yelling "fire" if there isn't one - because people lose their minds and do crazy things. Beatings, stabbings, shootings, bombings all perpetrated because religious fanaticism churned them up.
A moral person does not bomb abortion clinics. If a person were raised without religion, the likelihood of them committing crimes in the name of religion is minimal at best. But when you take a person who is probably already of questionable stability, fill them full of rhetoric and then preach hatred to them - what do you think they are going to do?
Can anyone find an article talking about how religious fundamentalists did something positive for humanity? Any pieces about them committing selfless acts or being especially compassionate or tolerant? If you can, please let me know.
Fundamentalism is infecting this planet like a virus and it only leads to death and destruction both figuratively and literally. So when you hear people crying about moderates being liberals in sheeps clothing or how relativism is destroying the church - hear it for what it really is.|W|P|112024505366897804|W|P|You Reap What You Sow.|W|P|7/01/2005 3:26 PM|W|P|Phoenix|W|P|It's strange that it is really just the people on the fringe.
My grandmother is extremely religious. She thinks that the science is wrong and that the world was really created in 7 days, but she understands that I am a scientist and she doesn't try to change my views. She is also extremely tolerant of gays and other people.
This is the path that religion needs to take, tolerance. By forcing us to adhere to religious ways they are only alienating those who might understand them otherwise. But by restraining themselves we will be able to live in a better harmony. They need to learn that you don't have to have religion to have morals, and that for some people religion just isn't the way to go.
So why this seemed to get slightly off topic, I can explain. We hear about these religious psychos, but they really are on the fringe. These are the ones screaming the loudest, and I think that in some cases really good people are getting the shit.
So let's fight against the religious fundamentalists, but let's try to avoid getting those who actually care and are tolerant caught in the crossfire.7/01/2005 4:22 PM|W|P|jane|W|P|What an excellent entry that was. I think you're right on, its extremists of any faction thats so very dangerous.
great blog!7/01/2005 4:23 PM|W|P|Rudicus|W|P|This is why I think the revolution is actually going to come from the middle. It'll be a Mod Revolution.
I guess why I like to point out these extreme cases is because not only are they happening more frequently, but the rhetoric is getting more and more fundemental by the minute - which will only increase this kind of thing.
I think thebig difference is in attitude - my grandmother does much the same thing - holding all sorts of zany beliefs, but she doesn't think everyone she meets needs to think, do and be exactly what she is, nor does she want to use her beliefs to infect every aspect of life. "I can eat my broccoli without Jesus thank you." "Jesus will not help me clean my fuel injectors" etc.
But it's the militancy and fundelentalism that's the issue - I'm just afraid that their extremism will become mainstream.7/01/2005 5:28 PM|W|P|CT|W|P|Good post... Yeah Religion is not only a crutch for the weak minded, but also a way to try and control the masses... As we can see there are many flaws... It's a shame so many people have to be told whats right, and can't think for themselves... FUCKING SHEEP!!! LOL
Good Times7/04/2005 2:41 PM|W|P|Glod|W|P|I've just discovered that for every 100 blogexplosion credits you earn, I get 1!
So keep drumming up that traffic.7/04/2005 5:29 PM|W|P|